How important is pronunciation for English learners?

(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi, welcome to the 3 English Experts. I'm Dave. I'm Rebecca. And I'm Birgit. And welcome to this episode. 3 English Experts is your English podcast to help you speak better English and create a positive and happy mindset for your English learning journey. So, hello everyone. Today, we're talking about how to pronounce English words. Maybe you know that Rebecca and myself are from the north of England. Maybe you don't. Some people say we have a stronger accent. Some people say they can't recognize it. But today, anyway, we're all talking about accents, pronunciation, and all those good stuff. And Birgit would like to ask us, Rebecca and myself, a few questions, first of all. Birgit, over to you. Hello, Dave. Hello, Rebecca. Yes, I can say in general that Rebecca and David, to me and my ears and to Germans probably, sound very British. And we can recognize that it's maybe easier to understand that American English, but that depends very much on where people have listened to, where they have learned English. But I would say I do recognize you're British. Whether I would have been able to recognize that was from Sheffield, I don't know. That would be very specific. Yeah. Well, the question that came up when we said we were going to talk about this pronunciation subject is now we have those two native speakers here. I think people are always unsure about what they sound like. And they would really like to sound like a British person or American. So we try to imitate, of course, when we learn a language. And the question I have is, what do you as a native think when people speak English? Do you really judge in your head, oh, she, he is a good speaker, not a good speaker, and the pronunciation is not very good. Does that come to your mind at all? Or is it more about the fact, well, I can't understand the message. I mean, I don't know what he is talking about or she. It's always interesting. I love listening to like dialects and accents and trying to figure out where people are from. But, you know, if there's someone speaking to me and I know probably know that they're German, but they suddenly speaking with a very British accent or very American accent that I would always assume they've probably spent time in that country. I think most people who have that sort of accent often studied or been abroad for a couple of years and therefore they come back with that. So which I think is problematic for people who haven't spent time in England or in America or in Australia or somewhere, because they always feel a little bit, oh, my colleague speaks really good English and he's got this amazing American accent. And it's hard, I think, but to pick up an accent like that when you don't live in one of those countries, I think is pretty, pretty difficult, isn't it, Dave? Yeah, I'd say so. But surprisingly, again, it's exactly what you said. Who have you been in contact with a lot? What do you watch maybe on TV? What kind of interest do you have? I've met so many people in so many different places that due to their connections with certain people, maybe boyfriend, girlfriend, or just literally groups of friends, even they've managed to pick up accents. And even sometimes, I think you'll agree, Rebecca, maybe that you're working with the client and you've been working with them for quite a while, and then you hear the northern vowels come out and you think, oh, wow, that's me. It just said pub or whatever. My biggest one is bath, because I can't say bath, I can't do that. I had a bath. And the other one is bucket. Bucket, I had that once, really, and someone said, and I was putting water in the bucket. And he said, it's such a Sheffield accent. I was like, oh, dear. And boss is the other one, because we say boss, not bath. Yeah, yeah. Yes. And pub as well. Yeah, pub. I've changed it to pub, so I'm a semi-decent English speaker. Oh, dear. Yeah, I know. I do notice that, though. It's like, oops, there's the Sheffield. And do you think I have an accent when it comes to English? Can you tell which region I've been to? Not really. I mean, you don't sound American, I would say. I would say you learn British English and not American English. But I don't think I could say specifically a region that you've been to, actually. Would you, Dave? No, I wouldn't say so. I wouldn't say so, no. It's quite neutral, I think. And this is another thing, actually, if I can just say this with my son, and I often had the discussion with my wife as to whether my son should pick up the Sheffield English accent or the Northern English accent, or whether he should have a more neutral English accent. And I've always said, no, I think it's good to have the Sheffield English accent or to at least use the accent of his dad or the people who he's around, because I think that also gives you a certain amount of culture, character. People then can recognise maybe that, OK, he's got something to do with the north of England, for example. Yeah, this is my point. It's all about authenticity. And he's had that upbringing. He's got a dad from Sheffield. He's lived in Spain. He was born in Germany, right? Yeah, yeah, he was. Yeah, so he's got this really international background. That's who he is. And I think authenticity is about being who you are and not trying to be something you're not. So making him speak like Queen's English or something, or is it King's English now? I don't know. Yeah, I guess so. That would be very weird, because it's like, well, you've never spent time there and you've never done that. So I think when you're speaking, you should always feel comfortable with what you're doing. And it doesn't have to be perfect British or perfect American, or you have to find your voice. And if that's a little bit German and English, that's OK. I've got French clients who sound incredibly French when they speak in English, but I can still understand them perfectly. And that's fine. And they sound cute. I love the French-English accent. It's so nice. It would be very boring if we all talked in the same way. It would be incredibly boring, in my opinion. Yes. But what we can say about the pronunciation and what I tell people when they say that they find maybe English sometimes difficult or how can they get into it a bit better? There is a difference between those two languages, German and English. And that's the other question. Do you agree? Do you feel the same towards German? Because towards English, I would say, and I know that, of course, it's a sing-sang rather than very hard pronunciation of every syllable. And what I often tell people to help them find their way with longer words, there must be a stress on a word. In German, I can say a sentence, die Corona-Schutz-Verordnung heute. There's no pronunciation needed, really. But that's impossible somehow with English. So if you understand, it's a sing-sang. It's a flowing language because with the ö, apple doesn't work. So we want to have an apple. Would you feel the same about German when you learn German? So you had to pronounce everything to the end properly. Yeah, I think British people, they see these massively long German words like what was yours? Corona-Schutz-Verordnung. It's like, how many letters are there in that word? And it just freaks people out because they think, how can I pass it? But actually, when you know a few basic rules in German, like it's Schutz, the sch, it's not bad, it's bad, long a. And when you learn a few rules, I don't think German pronunciation is actually that difficult compared to some other languages. Something like French, I would say, where Spanish is quite flat. I find there's not like a lot of up and down in Spanish, whereas French or Italian is very up and down in sing -song. So, yeah, I think when it comes to learning a language and accents come back to that, we Brits are very sort of up and down sing-song. You mentioned going to university in Wales, Rebecca, before we came on. And for me, the Welsh are very sort of sing-song accent. Hello, I'm from Wales. I'm going to get into trouble now for mocking. I worked in a bar when I first went to Cardiff and I had a job at a bar. And the first night I worked there, I couldn't understand anybody. They were all ordering this. I'll have a Bexamets and a Cork. A Cork was a coat. And I was just stood there going, is there anybody Welsh behind this bar? They were really not impressed with having an English girl serving them. I think that makes our British English more difficult to copy, but often I think American English sounds a lot more flat somehow, depending where they are from in America, of course. But the general American accents is possibly easier for foreigners to pick up. I would say maybe for learners, if they're looking to do or to try to pick up an accent, maybe the American is easier than anything else. And also, obviously, when you're watching a TV show, it's easier to pick up an accent. So if you're watching Netflix or whatever, if you watch it in English, then of course, most of them are in American English as well. But what you teach your students as well, where the stress goes, so in syllables sort of thing. And is there any help where they can look? I know when they look up a word at Lingwe, they could listen to it in either American or British English, but it's like what or listening out for the where is the stress? Yeah, absolutely. I think that's helpful. Yes. So you should say it's introduction. Yeah, exactly. That's the main thing I do if I'm teaching pronunciation. I mean, I wouldn't say, oh, this is the British way or this is the American way. But I would definitely talk about stress because I think that's what people find most useful when you're trying to. So the classic in German would be like the two syllable words like review. And the Germans would often say a review. They put the stress on the first part, review or a report. No, it's a report. It's not a report. So I would teach things like that. It's a two syllable word. Often the stress is on the second part of the word report, review. They do that with Berlin very often. Yes, right. Yeah, Berlin. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's this two syllable. So things like that, I think when you have a few tips that can be quite useful. But again, do you learn English or British or do you learn American? I don't know if it's about easier. I think it's what you relate to. So what do you want to sound like and what do you feel more comfortable with? And maybe you've been there or you just like the country. I had a guy, I had a client who'd been to New Zealand. He spent like a year in New Zealand, German guy. And he had the cutest New Zealand years, years. Every time he said it was just like, I loved that. I thought it was brilliant. I loved it. It fitted because he'd loved the time there. He'd really enjoyed himself. And he just sort of picked it up and it was nice. You can look out for a role model, couldn't you? Somebody you really like when he or she talks and try to imitate. I mean, the parroting thing again. You have to find something that you feel comfortable with. Listen to people. Maybe it's someone, you know, perhaps you've got a friend who speaks really good English and you want to copy or just someone on TV or YouTube or something. But yeah, imitating, parroting is kind of the best way, isn't it? But Dave, I think you've got some other tips, online tips or. Yeah, yeah, sure. How to help people's pronunciation. Yeah. If we start with YouTube, first of all, there was a YouTube channel I really, really like called English Fluency Journey. I've mentioned it before and it's a young girl and she's originally from Ukraine, but it doesn't sound like it when she speaks. She sounds for me as a Brit, that she sounds like she's American. What the Americans would say, I don't really know, but from a British standpoint, she certainly sounds American. And of course, I guess she's had a lot of experience working or dealing with Americans in some way or form. She may even live there now. The fact here is I'm going to put in the link below the link to a video where she talks about Elza Speak. If in particular, you're looking towards American English, Elza Speak is a pronunciation app. And nowadays, in fact, since AI, they've brought out a situation where you can actually have a conversation with Elza app or Elza Speak, should I say. And this video that I'm going to leave the link for is all about that, how it works, she shows how it works, how the actual app can also correct her pronunciation, not that she really needs it. Her English is absolutely amazing, but that's one thing you could do. Also, I'll leave for a website called howtopronounce .com. It's quite a nice website where you can just type in a word that you're not sure about, and it will pronounce it for you. And you can, even if you want to say the word yourself, and it will say how well you did when you pronounce the word, how close you were or not. So there's lots of things online that you can also look at. If you go to any dictionary, as Birgit said, it often says how you should pronounce it, where the stress can be, and also listen to the pronunciation. So there's lots of things online to help with pronunciation too. Yeah, Birgit. Yes. And that's what Duolingo does also. I don't know, you said, Rebecca, that with the Japanese, that doesn't come on. No, it's not available yet. With the Dutch, it does. So if I repeat after, or I have to pronounce, if it's not good enough, I need to say it again and again and again. Yeah, that is good. I think it's a pity they don't have that on Japanese because I know in Spanish they have it, right, Dave? They do. Yeah, they do. And I think French and things they do too. So yeah, Duolingo is another option to practice pronunciation. Yep. Okay. So we're going to test Birgit's pronunciation skills. We're going to put her on the spot. Poor Birgit. You're going to be the guinea pig again. Thank you. Okay. I'll say the word in German and then you're going to translate and say the word, yeah, why not? Because then the listeners will know what word we're talking about. Oh, okay. You're not going to put it in the chat then? I was going to say like, okay, Kleidung. How would you translate Kleidung? Klood. Or clothing? Clothing, that was better. So say the first one again. Klood. So Dave, how would you improve that? It's just the last bit, isn't it? Kloods. Yeah. It's so difficult. So, so difficult. This is the classic one. Everyone, the TH, everyone struggles with this. I normally say to my clients, just think of close the door. Because clothes and clothes, it's not that far away to get the S. And there is this tongue trick, right? When you're doing the TH, your tongue should be between your teeth. So clothes. And then it has to go back. Clothes, clothes, clothes, clothes. We look really, really sexy right now. Nobody wants to do that. So tongue through the teeth and then behind the teeth for the S bit. Clothes, clothes. Yeah, that's way better. You need to hear that S, yeah. I'm a bit lazy. And actually, I have a slight tendency to mumble. Okay, so you do. Yeah, so I'm, yeah, that's not helping. Okay, next word, Birgit, are you ready? Your magen. What is your magen? Stomach. Stomach. Oh, very good. You sounded a bit Northern then. Stomach. Well, the CH is a curse sound, yeah. Yeah. I have a, they stomach, they would often people say stomach, right? Yeah, yeah. So stomach. And the same with Kopfschmerzen? Headache. Yeah, again, this ache, not H, headache, I hear quite a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stärken, deine Stärken. Strength. I can see Rebecca laughing here. You can't see her. Sorry, I'm not laughing. I'm the face. That's okay. You kind of did the tongue, but you didn't do the S, but you kind of went. Strength. That tongue stayed between the teeth. Okay, the other one, I can't translate, but I'm going to put it in the chat. So this is a type of, you use this all the time and it's a real buzzword. Hang on. Agile. Very good. I hear agile. Our team is agile. I hear that a lot, really. It sounds a bit like a guy. I feel like it sounds like aging. We're aging or something, you know, agile. Yeah. It's agile. If I could just come in there, speaking of maybe company names. What about that famous company that you can use to pay for things online? How do you say that in English? PayPal. PayPal. PayPal. So PayPal. PayPal. Yes. Yeah. You see, and I'm Germanized here because we Germanize the names. It's like Kolgata. Yeah. Kolgata. I know. I said for years Kolgata before I learned it's Colgate, of course. Kolgata. I hadn't thought about that one. Yeah. The PayPal. I hear that a lot. So I think people don't realize that pal is your company, is your body. Pal. It's not Paul. PayPal. I've heard they say that on TV, on the news and stuff. They talk about it. It's Germanized. Definitely. That's like a name. It's become its own thing. Yeah. What else? Do you have any other one, Dave? I haven't got anything else on my list. Oh, maybe a few place names in England. I mean, not too difficult. Even the capital of England. Oh yes. London. Yes. Not London. Yes. Yeah. A lot of London. Well, I lived there. I should know. The Spanish, it would be a London. Yeah. I mean, a London. Yeah. A London. A London. A London. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, the classic, the Scottish place that nobody can pronounce. Oh yes. Edinburgh. Yes. Edinburgh. Very good. Very good. I have been to Edinburgh. Yeah. Okay. No Edinburgh. Yes. No. Those can be quite tricky. Ah, this other one. When you buy something in a shop, Birgit, what do you receive? A receipt. Very good. She's pretty good. Yes. She is teacher's pet, remember. She is teacher's pet. And what's that thing when you bake a cake, what do you read your... Oh, that's a recipe. But I tell you what I have trouble with. I tell you two words I struggle with. It's the dough. Yeah. Oh, the dough. Dough. The dough. Yeah. The dough. I always tend to say dough. Dough. Dough. The dough. Dough. And hypothesis. Hypothesis. That's a tricky one. Hypothesis. I find that tricky. I find that tricky. Hypothesis. That's not surprising. How's about that thing speaking... This is another word maybe because often sometimes letters are silent. What about this one? The money that you get from a bank if you want to buy a house or if you want to buy property. Hang on. Steh auf dem Schlauch. Begins with an M. Starts with an M. A mortgage. Yeah. Yes. Very good. Very good. So the... Bigot, didn't you write for the Financial Times that didn't you use it in your journalist days? So you see, she knows this stuff, Dave. Shame on me. Shame on me. No, no, no, no. I'm saying that's why she knows this stuff. Yeah. A lot of people don't know that. But what about if you spell like Düsseldorf, you are okay with the U umlaut if we say that? Düsseldorf. I still struggle with the, yeah, a little bit, I think. Sometimes like the drucker and the drücken and I think, yeah, I definitely mix that up. I think that's the most difficult part of German pronunciation, actually. But you can see listeners or you can listen listeners that it could be a nice or funny game if you ask people, you know how to pronounce and make it a game and ask each other difficult words. Difficult words. Yes. Because after that, you might remember them better because you might remember Yes, exactly. All right. So next time we're going to talk about chat GPT. This is something everybody is interested in, of course, and we can use it for language learning. Can we use it for language learning? Let's find out. We are going to discuss it and there might be people in this podcast who are rather pro and there might be people who are rather con or have their doubts about it. Sitting on the fence. Anyway, we're going to discuss about it. OK, hopefully you'll be listening to us again. Bye for now. See you next time. Bye bye. Thank you so much for pressing play today. If you have any comments, questions or perhaps suggestions for future episodes, feel free to contact us at our website, 3EnglishExperts.com. Have a great day and see you next time.